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It always takes longer: roughly, up to and at least for estimates

Approximating numbers in estimates, from roughly six weeks to at least two sprints, is what this B2 English for IT lesson plan teaches.

Grammar
Roughly, around and approximately before a number, or so and give or take after it, -ish in chat, and up to (a maximum) against at least (a minimum).
Topic
Estimating a merchant app feature at Kestrel Cloud, a fictional payments startup, with words such as story points, a spike, optimism bias and the worst case.
Activities
The story of Hofstadter's Law, a tech lead's estimate and a call about it, self-checking drills, a chat with a product owner, a wheel, and an estimate to write and record.

What's inside

  1. Chapter 1Warm-up: How Long Will It Take?

    • PictureUnlock
    • Open a box and answer: you and your estimatesOpen the boxUnlock
    • Study the vocabulary: words for planningVocabularyTry it
    • Look at the pictures and choose the wordChoose by pictureUnlock

  2. Chapter 2The Story: Ten Years Away

    • Read the story: Ten years away, every ten yearsArticleUnlock
    • Choose the correct answer about the storyQuizUnlock

  3. Chapter 3At Work: Kenji's Estimate

    • Read Kenji's estimate for the payout notificationsArticleUnlock
    • True or false? Check Kenji's estimateTrue or falseUnlock
    • Sort the phrases from Kenji's estimate: about, a maximum or a minimum?Sort into columnsUnlock

  4. Chapter 4Listen: Six Weeks for a Push Message?

    • Listen to Iryna and Kenji talk about the estimateListeningTry it
    • Transcript, for the teacherUnlock
    • Choose the correct answer about the callQuizUnlock

  5. Chapter 5Grammar: Roughly, Up To or At Least?

    • Study the scheme: approximating numbersGrammar schemeTry it
    • Choose the phrase that matches the meaning: about, a maximum or a minimumChoose the optionUnlock
    • Choose the correct sentenceQuizUnlock
    • Fill in the gaps: rewrite each estimate with a phrase built on the word in bracketsFill in the gapsTry it
    • Drag the phrases into Iryna's message to the teamDrag and dropUnlock

  6. Chapter 6Speak Up: No Promises Yet

    • Choose the right replies: give an estimate without over-promisingChatTry it
    • Spin the wheel: it always takes longerSpin the wheelUnlock

  7. Chapter 7Homework: Your Own Estimate

    • Read your phrase bankReal-life documentTry it
    • Choose the sentence that means the sameQuizUnlock
    • Match the sentence halvesMatchUnlock
    • Write an estimate message for your own taskWriting, checked by the teacherUnlock
    • Record your estimate for a planning meetingSpeaking, checked by the teacherUnlock

24 exercises in 7 chapters. Start a 7-day free trial to open all of them, copy any part into your own lessons, and teach the lesson live.

Project estimation vocabulary

12 words and phrases from the lesson, each with a picture and audio in edio.

+9 more with pictures and audio in the lessonMore words

  • back-of-the-envelope
  • optimism bias
  • uncertainty
  • the worst case
  • a deliverable
  • underestimate
  • pin down
  • allow for
  • run over

Grammar: approximating numbers in estimates

Vague language has a job at work: an estimate is only honest when it says how exact it is. Working through a tech lead's estimate for push notifications, learners choose a phrase for about, a maximum or a minimum, put it before or after the number, and use one per number.

Approximating numbers in estimates

About, a maximum or a minimum? Say what you mean, and say it once.

About a number: before it, after it or -ish

Most approximators go before the number: roughly six weeks, about 40 story points, or the more formal approximately and in the region of 10,000. Or so follows it, give or take follows the amount (six weeks, give or take a week), and chat adds -ish: Fridayish.

What you mean and how to say it

MeaningPhraseExample
About: a bit more or a bit lessabout / around / roughly + numberIt'll take roughly six weeks.
About (more formal)approximately / in the region of + numberWe see in the region of 10,000 errors a day.
About (after the number)number + or soI need a day or so.
About, with the possible erroramount, give or take + amountSix weeks, give or take a week.
About: a rangesomewhere between X and YSomewhere between five and seven weeks.
About (speech and chat)number or day + -ishLet's talk at fourish. It'll be ready Fridayish.
A maximum: no moreup to + numberTesting could take up to a week.
A minimum: no lessat least + numberThey need at least a week.
A rough first numbera ballpark figure / my ballpark is…Can you give me a ballpark figure?

Where does the phrase go?

  • Before the number: about, around, roughly, approximately, in the region of, somewhere between, up to, at least
  • After the number: or so (two days or so)
  • After the amount, usually after a comma: give or take + amount (ten days, give or take two)
  • Joined to the word, in speech and chat: fiveish or five-ish, Fridayish

Up to or at least?

Up to two weeks means two weeks or less, never more; at least two weeks means two weeks or more. A manager hears up to as a promise, so save it for a real maximum: Testing could take up to a week.

about two weeks

  • maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less

up to two weeks

  • two weeks or less, never more
  • a maximum

at least two weeks

  • two weeks or more, never less
  • a minimum

One approximator per number

Roughly and about mean the same, so each number takes one of them: roughly three hours, never roughly about three hours, and in the region of two weeks without or so. After give or take, the amount follows with no of.

One approximator per number

Say “roughly six weeks” or “six weeks or so”, never both. And say “up to” only for a real maximum: a manager hears “up to two weeks” as a promise that it won't take longer. If it could take longer, say “about two weeks” or “at least two weeks”.

A ballpark figure first

The first rough number a manager asks for is a ballpark figure: Can you give me a ballpark figure? The examples below come from the story, the estimate and the call, from in about ten years to at least a week.

  • Experts said a computer would be the world champion in about ten years.
  • The students' best guess was about 34 days; the real average was roughly 56.
  • My ballpark figure is six weeks, give or take a week.
  • I'd say three weeks or so for the Android side.
  • Testing on older phones could take up to a week.a maximum
  • The payouts team needs at least a week.a minimum

Typical mistakes

  • It'll take in the region of two weeks or so.

    It'll take in the region of two weeks. / It'll take two weeks or so.

    one approximator per number

  • The fix took roughly about three hours.

    The fix took roughly three hours.

    roughly and about mean the same: use one

  • Ten days, give or take of two days.

    Ten days, give or take two days.

    no “of” after give or take

  • We need up to three testers, maybe more.

    We need at least three testers, maybe more.

    up to is a maximum; for a minimum, use at least

Try the approximating numbers exercises

Try them yourself: these are the same exercises your students do in edio.

More exercises

What's in the lesson

  • 12 auto-checked exercises
  • 2 games
  • 2 teacher-checked tasks
  • 1 real-life document
  • 2 articles
  • 1 grammar scheme
  • 1 set of word cards
  • 1 audio clip
  • 1 picture
  • 1 transcript

The main objectives of this lesson are to:

  • give a rough number that stays honest: My ballpark figure is six weeks, give or take a week.
  • tell a maximum from a minimum: Testing could take up to a week. They need at least a week.
  • use one approximator per number: roughly three hours, not roughly about three hours, and give or take two days with no of
  • write an estimate with a range, assumptions and risks, and present it at a planning meeting: This estimate assumes that…

Lesson 1 of English for IT B2 · Beyond the Code opens Planning and estimates, the unit in which learners estimate work, explain uncertainty and agree on a realistic plan. Lesson 2 moves on to deadlines with the future perfect and continuous, and lesson 3 closes the unit with likelihood and planning poker. With a product owner waiting for a date, one careless up to turns into a promise.

A box of questions about learners' own estimates opens the lesson, then twelve words with pictures and audio, from story points to run over, and a picture quiz. The story follows a chess forecast that stayed ten years away and students who underestimated their thesis. At work, learners check a tech lead's estimate with true or false and sort its phrases by meaning, then hear two developers argue over it in an AI-voiced call.

The grammar chapter starts from the scheme and runs through four self-checking drills, from choosing up to or at least to rewriting exact numbers with an approximator. In the chat, learners answer a product owner who wants to promise a merchant four weeks; a wheel asks for ranges on everyday jobs, from a quick bug fix to painting a room.

A phrase bank opens the homework, followed by two self-checking exercises: sentences that mean the same and sentence halves to match. Learners then write an estimate message for a task of their own and record it as if at a planning meeting; the teacher reviews both.

Grammar:
approximating numbers · up to vs at least
Topic:
estimates · planning · Hofstadter's Law

Teaching tips

  • Collect real tasks before class: each learner brings one job from their own backlog, and those jobs replace the wheel's prompts once the group has warmed up.
  • Stop the call after Iryna's three weeks or so: ask what her number leaves out, then play on to hear what Kenji adds: old phones and waiting for the payouts team.
  • Draw the sales chart's two timelines, three weeks planned and roughly six taken, and have learners label the gap with scope creep, ran over and underestimate.
  • With in-company groups, rewrite a live number: learners take a date from their own tickets and say it three ways, as a range, with up to and with at least, then pick the one they'd send a manager.

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The whole course: English for IT B2 · Beyond the Code

24 lessons at B2 for software teams, in American English. A year on at Kestrel Cloud, a fictional payments startup, Iryna and her team estimate work, write docs and postmortems, argue trade-offs, give demos and negotiate scope. Each lesson starts from a real case, from the Apollo 11 alarms to Conway's law.See the course

  1. Unit 1 Planning and estimates

    estimates and deadlines: approximating numbers, the future continuous and perfect, likelihood

    1. Lesson 1 · you're hereIt always takes longerApproximating numbers in estimates
    2. Lesson 2By New Year's Eve, we'll have fixed itFuture continuous and future perfect
    3. Lesson 3Let's play planning pokerLikelihood with bound to, likely to and may well

  2. Unit 2 Docs people read

    specs and design docs: modals for requirements, participle clauses, plain English

    1. Lesson 4MUST, SHOULD or MAY?Modal verbs for requirements in specs
    2. Lesson 5Four kinds of docsParticiple clauses in documentation
    3. Lesson 6Just a request for commentsPlain English for design docs

  3. Unit 3 Incidents and postmortems

    telling an incident without blame: narrative tenses, the passive, the third conditional

    1. Lesson 7The 1202 alarmNarrative tenses for incident stories
    2. Lesson 8Blameless by designActive vs passive voice in a postmortem
    3. Lesson 9If we had had an alert…The third conditional: a different past

  4. Unit 4 Architecture and trade-offs

    comparing options and recording decisions: contrast linkers, modals of deduction, mixed conditionals

    1. Lesson 10Your system copies your org chartContrast linkers for comparing options
    2. Lesson 11It's always DNSModals of deduction for troubleshooting
    3. Lesson 12Write down the whyMixed conditionals for looking back on decisions

  5. Unit 5 Demos and tech talks

    a clear structure on stage: signposting, cleft sentences, describing trends

    1. Lesson 13The mother of all demosSignposting language for demos
    2. Lesson 1420 slides, 15 secondsCleft sentences for emphasis
    3. Lesson 15Numbers that tell a storyDescribing graphs and trends

  6. Unit 6 Stakeholders and scope

    saying no and finding yes: diplomatic language, as long as and unless, negotiating

    1. Lesson 16Pay down the debtDiplomatic language for hard messages
    2. Lesson 17Why meetings argue about the bike shedAs long as, provided, unless and otherwise
    3. Lesson 18Yes, if…Negotiating language for scope and deadlines

  7. Unit 7 AI, security and ethics

    AI tools, passwords and team rules: be used to and get used to, past modals of deduction, purpose linkers

    1. Lesson 19Your new pair programmerUsed to, be used to and get used to
    2. Lesson 20Change your password? Maybe notPast modals of deduction
    3. Lesson 21Rules for AI at workPurpose linkers for rules with a reason

  8. Unit 8 Growing your career

    feedback, retros and goals: phrasal verbs, reporting verbs, wish and if only

    1. Lesson 22Your next levelCareer phrasal verbs and goal frames
    2. Lesson 23Feedback that helpsReporting verbs and their patterns
    3. Lesson 24Start, stop, continueWish and if only for wishes and regrets

Questions about this lesson

What's the difference between "roughly" and "approximately"?
Roughly and approximately mean the same, but approximately is the more formal of the two. It'll take roughly six weeks suits a chat or a call; approximately 10,000 errors a day suits a report, as does in the region of. Both go before the number, like about and around, and both mean a bit more or a bit less.
How do you use "roughly" with a number?
Put roughly right before the number to show it isn't exact: It'll take roughly six weeks. The fix took roughly three hours. It works for plans and for what already happened: The sales chart took roughly six weeks, not three. Since it already means a bit more or a bit less, don't add about or or so to the same number.
What does "give or take" mean?
Give or take means plus or minus a small amount: six weeks, give or take a week is anything from five to seven weeks. It follows the number, usually after a comma, and the possible error comes straight after it, with no of: ten days, give or take two days. In the B2 English for IT lesson It always takes longer on edio.ai, a tech lead's estimate opens with it.
What is vague language?
Vague language is wording that makes a statement less exact on purpose, and with numbers it means approximators: roughly, around, or so, give or take, somewhere between and -ish. At work it isn't lazy. When nobody knows yet, somewhere between five and seven weeks is more honest than six weeks, and Let's talk at fourish is fine in a chat.
What's the difference between "up to" and "at least"?
Up to sets a maximum; at least sets a minimum. Testing could take up to a week means a week or less, never more; They need at least a week means a week or more. So We need up to three testers, maybe more is wrong: say at least three testers. People hear up to as a promise, so keep it for a real limit.
Can you say "roughly about"?
No: one approximator per number is enough, because roughly and about mean the same. Say The fix took roughly three hours or about three hours, and in the region of two weeks or two weeks or so, but never both together. A chat in It always takes longer, a B2 lesson on edio.ai, hides this trap in a wrong reply: It took roughly about two days.
What is a ballpark figure?
A ballpark figure is a rough first number, close enough for a first decision. Managers ask for one with Can you give me a ballpark figure?, and a good answer shows the range: My ballpark figure is six weeks, give or take a week. It isn't a promise, so say so: Please treat it as a range, not a promise. A ballpark estimate means the same.
How do you give a ballpark estimate without over-promising?
Give a range first, then the assumptions behind it: Our range is somewhere between five and seven weeks. This estimate assumes that the designs don't change. Mark the limits with up to and at least, name a best and a worst case, and say when the number will improve: I'll update the estimate after the spike. The chat in the B2 English for IT lesson It always takes longer on edio.ai rehearses this.
What does Hofstadter's Law mean?
Hofstadter's Law is the joke rule that work always takes longer than expected, even when you plan with the law in mind. Douglas Hofstadter wrote it in his 1979 book Gödel, Escher, Bach, and software teams quote it when plans run over: Doesn't Hofstadter's Law say it takes longer even with a buffer? The useful reply is a range based on how long similar work really took.
How do I teach approximating numbers to IT professionals?
Start from a real estimate, not a list of phrases: learners find give or take, up to and at least in a written estimate and sort them into about, a maximum and a minimum. Then they rewrite exact numbers with one approximator each and defend a range to someone who wants a date. It always takes longer, a B2 English for IT lesson on edio.ai, follows that path.
What's good homework for practicing estimates in English?
Good homework is an estimate message for a real task: a ballpark with a range, what is in and out of scope, two or three assumptions and the main risks, with up to or at least. Learners who don't write code can estimate a test cycle, a design or a report. A spoken version for a planning meeting adds fluency, and in this lesson both go to the teacher.
Are there interactive exercises for approximating numbers?
Yes: rewriting gap-fills and chat role-plays give instant feedback on approximators. This page plays four parts of It always takes longer, a B2 English for IT lesson on edio.ai, without an account: a call in which two developers argue about a six-week estimate, a gap-fill that rewrites exact numbers with roughly, or so or up to, a chat with a product owner who wants a date, and the homework's phrase bank. The other exercises are locked.
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